This is an excerpt from a chat I had with Jake just after he read the stuff. I'm putting it up here simply because there's stuff in there I'm sure I'll forget :-)
j_anandhakrishnan: ok i did the same mistake as rohit
avishek_sen_gupta: What?
j_anandhakrishnan: i missed the sublinks..
avishek_sen_gupta: Oh
j_anandhakrishnan: but still...if you are going to write...it...
avishek_sen_gupta: There is some more stuff I just put up right now
avishek_sen_gupta: F5 your page
j_anandhakrishnan: i mean a DVM for ruby as u say there..is that feasible to write for the already huge vocab..that the language..english has
j_anandhakrishnan: yes i did
j_anandhakrishnan: but i have got it
avishek_sen_gupta: Yeah but I want the initial English to be almost exactly the same as in the story cards.
avishek_sen_gupta: I dont want it to be expressible only in Ruby.
avishek_sen_gupta: I was talking with Karthik - this is a more AI-like approach...though not unpredicatable or anything
avishek_sen_gupta: There isnt any DVM for Ruby - its just that Ruby can be written in an English-like format
j_anandhakrishnan: hmm
avishek_sen_gupta: But that does not mean that Ruby is only lang that should benefit
avishek_sen_gupta: And not every proj tomorrow is going to switch to Ruby.
avishek_sen_gupta: That's unrealistic
j_anandhakrishnan: but ...what u seem to say sounds ..simple..
avishek_sen_gupta: OK
j_anandhakrishnan: but english cant always be broken..down to subjectt predicate..kind of thing..
avishek_sen_gupta: Obviously not always.
avishek_sen_gupta: But there are lots of other structures in English.
j_anandhakrishnan: i mean is that we try to .do..from story card to...a formal lang
avishek_sen_gupta: It's not a formal languae
j_anandhakrishnan: arent u trying to..write some kind of an intelligent system...or..ok are u saying
avishek_sen_gupta: We wont translate the English words to some syntactically correct thing
avishek_sen_gupta: It will remain the same English wording.
j_anandhakrishnan: the intial english is a restricted..and a more close to formal language kinna syntax
avishek_sen_gupta: Just some formatting in terms of brackets
avishek_sen_gupta: OK I'll remove the "restricted syntax" part
avishek_sen_gupta: You obviously think it is a very restricted part
avishek_sen_gupta: I tell you it's not
avishek_sen_gupta: It'll be like the English like we are speaking
avishek_sen_gupta: Is that radical enough?
j_anandhakrishnan: hmm but that is going to make
j_anandhakrishnan: the job of us ..DVM (correct me) very very difficult..
avishek_sen_gupta: I'm not goig to make the DVM parse normal English!!!!
avishek_sen_gupta: I'd be mad to do that
j_anandhakrishnan: am i understanding it correctly if i say ..ur are trying to write a Software..programmer../
avishek_sen_gupta: "Developer's job is to domain-format these sentences in a nested fashion. Grammar skills important."
j_anandhakrishnan: hmm yes..may be not devloper..ok
avishek_sen_gupta: Yeah
avishek_sen_gupta: Changed that too right now
j_anandhakrishnan: oh ok gottca
j_anandhakrishnan: hmm ok then why do u think this approach is any diff from ..and thing ppl are trying to do with domain specific lag
j_anandhakrishnan: what radical abt it
j_anandhakrishnan: the way u put it is interesting
j_anandhakrishnan: though
avishek_sen_gupta: It's just that initially the symbols or terms dont have any meaning in code
avishek_sen_gupta: You dont define BillingSchedule initially, say.
avishek_sen_gupta: It's just a symbol with relationships to other symbols
avishek_sen_gupta: So initially you have this whole web where symbols are defined in terms of their relationships
avishek_sen_gupta: These relationships can be very varied, like the English language.
j_anandhakrishnan: oh ok...got it..that what u
j_anandhakrishnan: mean by delaying..the whole thing..of trans..and top down app etc
avishek_sen_gupta: Yes.
j_anandhakrishnan: hmm yes..
avishek_sen_gupta: You dont try to define everything from the start
avishek_sen_gupta: You dont have to, because many terms might be confusing, ambiguous.
j_anandhakrishnan: hey ppl do crib abt javac..and what they crib abt it,,is not being able to change...the generated code..and change it easily and consistently...
j_anandhakrishnan: so..if they have to recomple code they do complain abt it...
avishek_sen_gupta: Yeah but devs will be able to change the Java code in this case too.
j_anandhakrishnan: the whole compile time runtime thingy
avishek_sen_gupta: I was just thinking from the angle that it should not be like a UML thing which says code gen is the best thing.
avishek_sen_gupta: Sure devs will be able to change the Java code to suit the specific needs.
j_anandhakrishnan: yes so taht is why they dont complain so much abt that
j_anandhakrishnan: yeah yeah i get what ur saying...just ..laughing at the analogy
avishek_sen_gupta: So the main thing is you are not tied down to have to define every single term at the beginning of your domain coding
avishek_sen_gupta: Hehehe
j_anandhakrishnan: yes that sounds pretty good to mean hmm not not even try and not have to thin k..what this booldy billing schedule is all about..
j_anandhakrishnan: bloody*
avishek_sen_gupta:
j_anandhakrishnan: and let this DVM thingy fig it out basd on its interaction
j_anandhakrishnan: s later...delay it
j_anandhakrishnan: till i get all the interactions figured out
avishek_sen_gupta: You should be able to get your code without defining every interaction as well, that's also something I was thinking.
avishek_sen_gupta: Question is: I have to write some stuff to show this is possible.
avishek_sen_gupta: Which I'll do in the next few days
avishek_sen_gupta: But yeah, interactions will go a long way in defining your domain.
j_anandhakrishnan: hmm can i say...the more the interactions ..the clearer the defining it becomes..
avishek_sen_gupta: Yes
j_anandhakrishnan: or is it..more like..the maturity of the objects..will be only as many interactions they have..so..
avishek_sen_gupta: Yes
j_anandhakrishnan: u will get simple objects and small
j_anandhakrishnan: ones if there are fewere interactions
avishek_sen_gupta: Yes...
avishek_sen_gupta: And since these things are from the BAs themselves, the stories are the documentation as well as the deliverable, in a sense
j_anandhakrishnan: yes of course...i mean the docmentation wud be the code and deliverable...
avishek_sen_gupta: So now you get it
j_anandhakrishnan: so there is not meta..wrapper thing to understand stand...the this..or anything of that sort..i think the documention is already part is already taked care of by us...
avishek_sen_gupta: Yes
j_anandhakrishnan: ok again so what am i missing here...so what will it still take to write this SVM
j_anandhakrishnan: DVM ...
j_anandhakrishnan: still looks difficult to ,e
avishek_sen_gupta: Oh I think once the text has been domain-formatted, it shouldnt be extremely hard task
j_anandhakrishnan: is that ...what LISP is abt..??
avishek_sen_gupta: Yes that is what I thought too...
avishek_sen_gupta: But i cant restrict it to LISP
j_anandhakrishnan: hey ..ur effectively talkin abt LISP...
avishek_sen_gupta: There are other languages being used right now
avishek_sen_gupta: Yes I am, in a sense, but how many projects do you see around you using LISP?
j_anandhakrishnan: ok ..not that ..the infinite number of braces gives it away...
avishek_sen_gupta: That's where I came to this
j_anandhakrishnan: ok how abt we write code in LISP and convert it to lang of our choice..the platform as u call it
avishek_sen_gupta: Makes sense, but I dont want to be tied down to a particular language for the business.
j_anandhakrishnan: but man...how am i supposed to start thinking...like LISP..if u take me so far away from ...seeing how it will work..i will never know if what i am writing..is correct..
avishek_sen_gupta: But what you say makes good sense.
avishek_sen_gupta: Dude
avishek_sen_gupta: Even I haven't thought out everything
j_anandhakrishnan: or rahter...i havent yet figured..how is works...unitl i see some of it working..and i correct it as i want to..
avishek_sen_gupta: Maybe what you are saying is correct.
avishek_sen_gupta: I just have to think abt it myself.
j_anandhakrishnan: yes but it does make sense when u say we have to start thinking like
avishek_sen_gupta: Yeah maybe. You have a good point.
j_anandhakrishnan: that .rather than waste a lot of time..figuring out abt the conversion..of it to what .the computer..understand..or trying to fig..who to make it understanable to Mr computer chip
avishek_sen_gupta: Yeah
...
avishek_sen_gupta: Anyway so do you think it's worth giving this a shot?
j_anandhakrishnan: hmm yes why not..anything..that will make my job easier...is always good...